Hello. I need some help for my son, aged 11.
1. Our typical vaccination-MMR injured son ( age 11, weight 42kg) started to detox on the old DAN! protocol of oral DMSA in 2002/3. but it gave him extreme gut ache ( all that sulphur in the GI tract ), so we stopped it after 4 months. Other kids were affected similarly, and instead DAN! now recommeds the Dr.Buttar protocol td-dmps.
2. We later restarted detox in June 2004 with intravenous glutathione ( IV-GSH), but after 6 twice- weekly pushes he developed severe headaches, so we stopped the IVs. The headaches finally stopped in September 2004 when we started giving him B12 methyl cobalamin injections and td- B12 cream. We did not start anything new during the IV-GSH period, so we concluded that the GSH gives him headaches. Does anyone else have that experience and does it mean that transdermal-GSH would also give him headaches? We really want the GSH to work as an alternative to DMSA or DMPS because.....
3. We started td-dmps without GSH mixed with the dmps in June 2005, after verifying that he was 'ready ' to start ( stool tests all clear, eliminating daily, GFCF diet for 5 years, blood markers all within range, etc) His weight appropriate dosage is the maximum of 60mg every second day, with zinc, liquid mineral supplementation on the off day. We started gently, and took 6 weeks to build up to 60mg, starting at 10mg. He typed that he complained of feeling 'spacey' , had blurred vision and a rash on his legs, but what was most distressing was that he started to urinate without any control. After being on the full dose for 2 months, we did a challenge test based not on a double dose, but only the usual 60mg dose, and took a 24 hour urine collection and hair sample on 25 Sepetmber 2005. We then stopped the td-dmps all together. However, his incontinence continues and he seems to be havig a withdrawal reaction. Once to twice daily he has sudden unexplained bouts of anger and violence with head-hitting. We guess released mercury has deposited into his kidneys causing dysfuntion there and also is redepositing into his brain, or he is re-toxifying. Yes/No?
Have we stopped too abruptly? Can anyone suggest what to do? We next want to try natural detox ( cilantro, chlorella, spirulina, and ???).
Can anyone offer advice? We assume Dr Klinghartd is the best at this, but is there anyone else anyone recommeds who is a detox specialist with kids?
Thanks.
John M.
Full Version: My Son's Bad Reaction To Iv-gsh & Td-dmps. Remedy?
re reading your email, it also sounds like there is still considerable gut dysbiosis/ candida. This often means lots of sulphur loving types of gut bacteria in gut, which will cause gut disruption when sulphur containing foods or drugs introduced. Even though stool tests clear (depending what sort of tests, in uk they don't go too much with these) gut flora could still be major problem. Just my thoughts.
hilary
Contact Jeff Bland via functional medicine website, to find a practitioner who can help. Can he tolerate any dairy as whey protein isolate (about a tablespoon three times a day) has been shown now with good research back up, to dramatically increase glutathione levels in cells. I am using it in last few days with good resultsalongside chelation. It might help mitigate against what is going on. Maybe it could be a way of increasing glutathione levels without the effects you experienced with iv. Truly best wishes. I am in the uk and there are people here if you needed who could help. There is also a really pure mercury free kelp product called modifilan which could help, as it will bind to circulating mercury. It is imported from usa and has these details on the pot . PSD INC, OR 97055 USA. Does he have any selenium? Horsetail tea may well help with the incontinence (it is also a detoxifier) but you need three cups a day
hilary
hilary
Contact Jeff Bland via functional medicine website, to find a practitioner who can help. Can he tolerate any dairy as whey protein isolate (about a tablespoon three times a day) has been shown now with good research back up, to dramatically increase glutathione levels in cells. I am using it in last few days with good resultsalongside chelation. It might help mitigate against what is going on. Maybe it could be a way of increasing glutathione levels without the effects you experienced with iv. Truly best wishes. I am in the uk and there are people here if you needed who could help. There is also a really pure mercury free kelp product called modifilan which could help, as it will bind to circulating mercury. It is imported from usa and has these details on the pot . PSD INC, OR 97055 USA. Does he have any selenium? Horsetail tea may well help with the incontinence (it is also a detoxifier) but you need three cups a day
hilary
QUOTE(John M @ Oct 6 2005, 08:21 AM)
Hello. I need some help for my son, aged 11.
1. Our typical vaccination-MMR injured son ( age 11, weight 42kg) started to detox on the old DAN! protocol of oral DMSA in 2002/3. but it gave him extreme gut ache ( all that sulphur in the GI tract ), so we stopped it after 4 months. Other kids were affected similarly, and instead DAN! now recommeds the Dr.Buttar protocol td-dmps.
2. We later restarted detox in June 2004 with intravenous glutathione ( IV-GSH), but after 6 twice- weekly pushes he developed severe headaches, so we stopped the IVs. The headaches finally stopped in September 2004 when we started giving him B12 methyl cobalamin injections and td- B12 cream. We did not start anything new during the IV-GSH period, so we concluded that the GSH gives him headaches. Does anyone else have that experience and does it mean that transdermal-GSH would also give him headaches? We really want the GSH to work as an alternative to DMSA or DMPS because.....
3. We started td-dmps without GSH mixed with the dmps in June 2005, after verifying that he was 'ready ' to start ( stool tests all clear, eliminating daily, GFCF diet for 5 years, blood markers all within range, etc) His weight appropriate dosage is the maximum of 60mg every second day, with zinc, liquid mineral supplementation on the off day. We started gently, and took 6 weeks to build up to 60mg, starting at 10mg. He typed that he complained of feeling 'spacey' , had blurred vision and a rash on his legs, but what was most distressing was that he started to urinate without any control. After being on the full dose for 2 months, we did a challenge test based not on a double dose, but only the usual 60mg dose, and took a 24 hour urine collection and hair sample on 25 Sepetmber 2005. We then stopped the td-dmps all together. However, his incontinence continues and he seems to be havig a withdrawal reaction. Once to twice daily he has sudden unexplained bouts of anger and violence with head-hitting. We guess released mercury has deposited into his kidneys causing dysfuntion there and also is redepositing into his brain, or he is re-toxifying. Yes/No?
Have we stopped too abruptly? Can anyone suggest what to do? We next want to try natural detox ( cilantro, chlorella, spirulina, and ???).
Can anyone offer advice? We assume Dr Klinghartd is the best at this, but is there anyone else anyone recommeds who is a detox specialist with kids?
Thanks.
John M.
1. Our typical vaccination-MMR injured son ( age 11, weight 42kg) started to detox on the old DAN! protocol of oral DMSA in 2002/3. but it gave him extreme gut ache ( all that sulphur in the GI tract ), so we stopped it after 4 months. Other kids were affected similarly, and instead DAN! now recommeds the Dr.Buttar protocol td-dmps.
2. We later restarted detox in June 2004 with intravenous glutathione ( IV-GSH), but after 6 twice- weekly pushes he developed severe headaches, so we stopped the IVs. The headaches finally stopped in September 2004 when we started giving him B12 methyl cobalamin injections and td- B12 cream. We did not start anything new during the IV-GSH period, so we concluded that the GSH gives him headaches. Does anyone else have that experience and does it mean that transdermal-GSH would also give him headaches? We really want the GSH to work as an alternative to DMSA or DMPS because.....
3. We started td-dmps without GSH mixed with the dmps in June 2005, after verifying that he was 'ready ' to start ( stool tests all clear, eliminating daily, GFCF diet for 5 years, blood markers all within range, etc) His weight appropriate dosage is the maximum of 60mg every second day, with zinc, liquid mineral supplementation on the off day. We started gently, and took 6 weeks to build up to 60mg, starting at 10mg. He typed that he complained of feeling 'spacey' , had blurred vision and a rash on his legs, but what was most distressing was that he started to urinate without any control. After being on the full dose for 2 months, we did a challenge test based not on a double dose, but only the usual 60mg dose, and took a 24 hour urine collection and hair sample on 25 Sepetmber 2005. We then stopped the td-dmps all together. However, his incontinence continues and he seems to be havig a withdrawal reaction. Once to twice daily he has sudden unexplained bouts of anger and violence with head-hitting. We guess released mercury has deposited into his kidneys causing dysfuntion there and also is redepositing into his brain, or he is re-toxifying. Yes/No?
Have we stopped too abruptly? Can anyone suggest what to do? We next want to try natural detox ( cilantro, chlorella, spirulina, and ???).
Can anyone offer advice? We assume Dr Klinghartd is the best at this, but is there anyone else anyone recommeds who is a detox specialist with kids?
Thanks.
John M.
Hi John
First of all, very very sorry to hear about your son and the suffering induced from this unspeakable toxic poison.
Secondly, I cannot advise you more strongly to get in touch with Andy Cutler, who has deals with autistic or mercury toxic children/people daily and from the back lash of wrong detox protocols that cause a redistribution of mercury and in effect re-poisoning.
I am in contact with him myself because of severe toxicity and will soon have him in league with my own doctor to try and help me. I have his book and I can tell you that he knows his stuff, has cured himself of mercury poisoning, has helped NUMEROUS parents with their poor kids who have developed autism usually from vaccination or other symptoms of mercury toxicity.
He understands the bio chemistry stuff, he knows mercury and knows what it does and by the symptoms and further testing, should be able to tell you what you can do to help your son and improve his condition and put him on the right path.
I would also advise you to NOT give him any chlorella or anything of the like as it's been found merely to move mercury around the body, not OUT. DMPS, or DMSA are effective, if given in the proper way, the safe way.
I don't say he's perfect or has the magic bullet as far as mercury toxicity goes (nobody does), but I would have to tell you that he's helped, even cured many and his protocol makes the most sense. I've suffered for 18 years, I've been on anything and everything, mostly been damaged by having it all done incorrectly. I am still suffering and will soon be on his protocol. He also explains why other methods are dangerous and should be avoided. If you read what he says, you will understand why too.
He can be contacted by email:
AndyCutler@aol.com
First of all, very very sorry to hear about your son and the suffering induced from this unspeakable toxic poison.
Secondly, I cannot advise you more strongly to get in touch with Andy Cutler, who has deals with autistic or mercury toxic children/people daily and from the back lash of wrong detox protocols that cause a redistribution of mercury and in effect re-poisoning.
I am in contact with him myself because of severe toxicity and will soon have him in league with my own doctor to try and help me. I have his book and I can tell you that he knows his stuff, has cured himself of mercury poisoning, has helped NUMEROUS parents with their poor kids who have developed autism usually from vaccination or other symptoms of mercury toxicity.
He understands the bio chemistry stuff, he knows mercury and knows what it does and by the symptoms and further testing, should be able to tell you what you can do to help your son and improve his condition and put him on the right path.
I would also advise you to NOT give him any chlorella or anything of the like as it's been found merely to move mercury around the body, not OUT. DMPS, or DMSA are effective, if given in the proper way, the safe way.
I don't say he's perfect or has the magic bullet as far as mercury toxicity goes (nobody does), but I would have to tell you that he's helped, even cured many and his protocol makes the most sense. I've suffered for 18 years, I've been on anything and everything, mostly been damaged by having it all done incorrectly. I am still suffering and will soon be on his protocol. He also explains why other methods are dangerous and should be avoided. If you read what he says, you will understand why too.
He can be contacted by email:
AndyCutler@aol.com
John,You could add alpha lipoic acid and iodine to the cilantro, chlorella,and spirulina mix.I received Vitamin Research News yesterday and there was an article by Guy E. Abraham M.D..He states that iodine is a natural detoxifier and that our nation is deficient in iodine.
You might try giving digestive enzymes with everything your son ingests and systemic enzymes,such as Wobenzym, on an enpty stomach before bed.Probiotics should be helpful.The Culturelle brand is the only one I've found helpful.Your son may tolerate IV's with the enzyme support.There is a lab test at <spectracell.com> that will help identify nutritional deficiencies.
The Vitamin Research News should be available at <vrp.com> and <vitacost.com> has the best price on Wobenzym and Culturelle that I have seen.
Hello John,
So sorry to about hear what you're experiencing with your son.
Are you involved with any of the autism groups online? Some of them have reported using a fulvic acid supplement successfully. It's anti viral and anti fungal which would be good for the MMR complications. Healing the gut is these parent's top priority.
I've been using PCA-Rx- which stands for peptide clathrating agent. It forms a matrix around the mercury molecule so it can't be reabsorbed. The upside is that it's gentle- I haven't had any head aches from it but a friend did. The downside is that it takes out the less "sticky" metals like aluminum, cadmium, etc first. Which is okay in my mind since they have a synergism with the mercury that we don't understand. The other upside is that it's a spray.
I had major forward motion from taking glutathione precursors that I ordered from http://www.cfsn.com. I don't know if your son can take capsules. It's a pack of 5 with food and another pack of 4 on an empty stomach. It made a remarkable difference. I also used those weird footpads at the same time at night. Had detox symptoms at night. Coincidental? Some folks swear by them- others claim they are a placebo.
All the best,
Dana
So sorry to about hear what you're experiencing with your son.
Are you involved with any of the autism groups online? Some of them have reported using a fulvic acid supplement successfully. It's anti viral and anti fungal which would be good for the MMR complications. Healing the gut is these parent's top priority.
I've been using PCA-Rx- which stands for peptide clathrating agent. It forms a matrix around the mercury molecule so it can't be reabsorbed. The upside is that it's gentle- I haven't had any head aches from it but a friend did. The downside is that it takes out the less "sticky" metals like aluminum, cadmium, etc first. Which is okay in my mind since they have a synergism with the mercury that we don't understand. The other upside is that it's a spray.
I had major forward motion from taking glutathione precursors that I ordered from http://www.cfsn.com. I don't know if your son can take capsules. It's a pack of 5 with food and another pack of 4 on an empty stomach. It made a remarkable difference. I also used those weird footpads at the same time at night. Had detox symptoms at night. Coincidental? Some folks swear by them- others claim they are a placebo.
All the best,
Dana
Hi John,
I'm no expert on child detox, rather intuition.
It sounds as if the td-dmps wasn't so... bad, did you try assisting the detox with epsom salt bath and baking soda, maybe he wasn't sweating enough, I'm thinking something along the lines of excercise, hot baths or sauna, getting the pores to open and release toxins.
I think natural detox should be a part of everyone's routine, avoidance of metals and chemicals and adding good things to food, like cilantro, protein, etc. The reaction could have been food related, I don't know if others had problems with eggs and bread yeast during detox, but that would sound logical to me.
If my skin reacts I use an astringent then lots of vitimin C creams, also lots of vitimin c fluids.
Maybe my suggestions will help with a logical approach.
Regards,
maz
I'm no expert on child detox, rather intuition.
It sounds as if the td-dmps wasn't so... bad, did you try assisting the detox with epsom salt bath and baking soda, maybe he wasn't sweating enough, I'm thinking something along the lines of excercise, hot baths or sauna, getting the pores to open and release toxins.
I think natural detox should be a part of everyone's routine, avoidance of metals and chemicals and adding good things to food, like cilantro, protein, etc. The reaction could have been food related, I don't know if others had problems with eggs and bread yeast during detox, but that would sound logical to me.
If my skin reacts I use an astringent then lots of vitimin C creams, also lots of vitimin c fluids.
Maybe my suggestions will help with a logical approach.
Regards,
maz
QUOTE(John M @ Oct 6 2005, 01:21 AM)
Hello. I need some help for my son, aged 1
1. Our typical vaccination-MMR injured son ( age 11, weight 42kg) started to detox on the old DAN! protocol of oral DMSA in 2002/3. but it gave him extreme gut ache ( all that sulphur in the GI tract ), so we stopped it after 4 months. Other kids were affected similarly, and instead DAN! now recommeds the Dr.Buttar protocol td-dmps.
2. We later restarted detox in June 2004 with intravenous glutathione ( IV-GSH), but after 6 twice- weekly pushes he developed severe headaches, so we stopped the IVs. The headaches finally stopped in September 2004 when we started giving him B12 methyl cobalamin injections and td- B12 cream. We did not start anything new during the IV-GSH period, so we concluded that the GSH gives him headaches. Does anyone else have that experience and does it mean that transdermal-GSH would also give him headaches? We really want the GSH to work as an alternative to DMSA or DMPS because.....
3. We started td-dmps without GSH mixed with the dmps in June 2005, after verifying that he was 'ready ' to start ( stool tests all clear, eliminating daily, GFCF diet for 5 years, blood markers all within range, etc) His weight appropriate dosage is the maximum of 60mg every second day, with zinc, liquid mineral supplementation on the off day. We started gently, and took 6 weeks to build up to 60mg, starting at 10mg. He typed that he complained of feeling 'spacey' , had blurred vision and a rash on his legs, but what was most distressing was that he started to urinate without any control. After being on the full dose for 2 months, we did a challenge test based not on a double dose, but only the usual 60mg dose, and took a 24 hour urine collection and hair sample on 25 Sepetmber 2005. We then stopped the td-dmps all together. However, his incontinence continues and he seems to be havig a withdrawal reaction. Once to twice daily he has sudden unexplained bouts of anger and violence with head-hitting. We guess released mercury has deposited into his kidneys causing dysfuntion there and also is redepositing into his brain, or he is re-toxifying. Yes/No?
Have we stopped too abruptly? Can anyone suggest what to do? We next want to try natural detox ( cilantro, chlorella, spirulina, and ???).
Can anyone offer advice? We assume Dr Klinghartd is the best at this, but is there anyone else anyone recommeds who is a detox specialist with kids?
Thanks.
John M.
1. Our typical vaccination-MMR injured son ( age 11, weight 42kg) started to detox on the old DAN! protocol of oral DMSA in 2002/3. but it gave him extreme gut ache ( all that sulphur in the GI tract ), so we stopped it after 4 months. Other kids were affected similarly, and instead DAN! now recommeds the Dr.Buttar protocol td-dmps.
2. We later restarted detox in June 2004 with intravenous glutathione ( IV-GSH), but after 6 twice- weekly pushes he developed severe headaches, so we stopped the IVs. The headaches finally stopped in September 2004 when we started giving him B12 methyl cobalamin injections and td- B12 cream. We did not start anything new during the IV-GSH period, so we concluded that the GSH gives him headaches. Does anyone else have that experience and does it mean that transdermal-GSH would also give him headaches? We really want the GSH to work as an alternative to DMSA or DMPS because.....
3. We started td-dmps without GSH mixed with the dmps in June 2005, after verifying that he was 'ready ' to start ( stool tests all clear, eliminating daily, GFCF diet for 5 years, blood markers all within range, etc) His weight appropriate dosage is the maximum of 60mg every second day, with zinc, liquid mineral supplementation on the off day. We started gently, and took 6 weeks to build up to 60mg, starting at 10mg. He typed that he complained of feeling 'spacey' , had blurred vision and a rash on his legs, but what was most distressing was that he started to urinate without any control. After being on the full dose for 2 months, we did a challenge test based not on a double dose, but only the usual 60mg dose, and took a 24 hour urine collection and hair sample on 25 Sepetmber 2005. We then stopped the td-dmps all together. However, his incontinence continues and he seems to be havig a withdrawal reaction. Once to twice daily he has sudden unexplained bouts of anger and violence with head-hitting. We guess released mercury has deposited into his kidneys causing dysfuntion there and also is redepositing into his brain, or he is re-toxifying. Yes/No?
Have we stopped too abruptly? Can anyone suggest what to do? We next want to try natural detox ( cilantro, chlorella, spirulina, and ???).
Can anyone offer advice? We assume Dr Klinghartd is the best at this, but is there anyone else anyone recommeds who is a detox specialist with kids?
Thanks.
John M.
Hi, I appreciate your post. I'm an adult with elevated levels of heavy metals. Specifically mercury and lead (confirmed by DMSA challenge urine test).
I took oral DMSA for almost a year. I will never take it again.
Long list of problems on it.
Recently switched to a new protocol. The phase that I'm now on involves taking Vitamin C (Lipoflow IRD) with Glutathione reduced (Lipo flow IRD) along with a specially formulated selenium (AOR). This is a very powerful combination.
6 days after taking what I thought was a very small dose threw me into a major healing crisis. The symptoms started on day 3 and have not let up.
One of the most annoying symptoms is a constant pounding
headache. Could be from the R Glutathione.???
Once the healing crisis subsides will take a much smaller dose to see if the healing crisis is not so severe.
Also taking a synergistic antioxidant, network synergy (AOR).
This combination is a natural way which seems to be less damaging than DMSA.
Anyone else out there using these products?
Thanks.
Hi,
QUOTE(Diana @ Oct 8 2005, 04:24 PM)
Hi, I appreciate your post. I'm an adult with elevated levels of heavy metals. Specifically mercury and lead (confirmed by DMSA challenge urine test).
I took oral DMSA for almost a year. I will never take it again.
Long list of problems on it.
Recently switched to a new protocol. The phase that I'm now on involves taking Vitamin C (Lipoflow IRD) with Glutathione reduced (Lipo flow IRD) along with a specially formulated selenium (AOR). This is a very powerful combination.
6 days after taking what I thought was a very small dose threw me into a major healing crisis. The symptoms started on day 3 and have not let up.
One of the most annoying symptoms is a constant pounding
headache. Could be from the R Glutathione.???
Once the healing crisis subsides will take a much smaller dose to see if the healing crisis is not so severe.
Also taking a synergistic antioxidant, network synergy (AOR).
This combination is a natural way which seems to be less damaging than DMSA.
Anyone else out there using these products?
Thanks.
Hi,
I took oral DMSA for almost a year. I will never take it again.
Long list of problems on it.
Recently switched to a new protocol. The phase that I'm now on involves taking Vitamin C (Lipoflow IRD) with Glutathione reduced (Lipo flow IRD) along with a specially formulated selenium (AOR). This is a very powerful combination.
6 days after taking what I thought was a very small dose threw me into a major healing crisis. The symptoms started on day 3 and have not let up.
One of the most annoying symptoms is a constant pounding
headache. Could be from the R Glutathione.???
Once the healing crisis subsides will take a much smaller dose to see if the healing crisis is not so severe.
Also taking a synergistic antioxidant, network synergy (AOR).
This combination is a natural way which seems to be less damaging than DMSA.
Anyone else out there using these products?
Thanks.
Hi,
QUOTE(Diana @ Oct 8 2005, 05:16 PM)
John M.
Just another thought on your son.
If the urinary incontinence is continuing he may be helped by a kidney drainage homeopathic product. Dr. Deb baker has her own. See her web site. y2khealthand detox.com
When you mentioned 2 times a week on the IV glutathione that seemed too frequent to me. Did he ever try once a week or every other week?
The oral lipo flow reduced glutatione product made by IRD is specially engineered to be equivalent to the IV form. You may be more able to adjust the dose to get the chelation benefits with out the headache.
Diana
Just another thought on your son.
If the urinary incontinence is continuing he may be helped by a kidney drainage homeopathic product. Dr. Deb baker has her own. See her web site. y2khealthand detox.com
When you mentioned 2 times a week on the IV glutathione that seemed too frequent to me. Did he ever try once a week or every other week?
The oral lipo flow reduced glutatione product made by IRD is specially engineered to be equivalent to the IV form. You may be more able to adjust the dose to get the chelation benefits with out the headache.
Diana
Hello John M,
I would like to confirm what Mr Pepper (messsage #3) says. I have just finished reading Andy Cutler’s book
”Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment – What you can do to get better. How your doctor can help”.
His explanations have convinced me that the combination of oral DMSA with ALA (alpha lipoic acid) are the correct chelators but that it is of MASSIVE importance to use the correct, regular dosage (every 3 - 4 hours). His book explains all this and is available at: www.noamalgam.com or from Amazon.
Important also is to avoid cilantro, chlorella, etc. because these things, with only one single thiol, are NOT chelators but only ‘stir’ up the mercury resulting in additional toxic effects. Here a quote from a message from Andy on this subject:
I strongly recommend you read his book first and then decide what is most suitable for your son.
JMHoll99
I would like to confirm what Mr Pepper (messsage #3) says. I have just finished reading Andy Cutler’s book
”Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment – What you can do to get better. How your doctor can help”.
His explanations have convinced me that the combination of oral DMSA with ALA (alpha lipoic acid) are the correct chelators but that it is of MASSIVE importance to use the correct, regular dosage (every 3 - 4 hours). His book explains all this and is available at: www.noamalgam.com or from Amazon.
Important also is to avoid cilantro, chlorella, etc. because these things, with only one single thiol, are NOT chelators but only ‘stir’ up the mercury resulting in additional toxic effects. Here a quote from a message from Andy on this subject:
QUOTE
<<The "sulfur" group in [chlorella and other high sulfur foods foods] is usually a thiol - an SH group stuck onto the carbon backbone of a molecule somewhere. One of these molecules is the amino acid cysteine. Many proteins in your body have cysteine in them. Thus, your body is full of -SH groups that belong to you.
If you take something that has one sulfur in it, then that just goes and bumps the mercury off one of the sulfurs that belong to you. Next time that mercury runs into another sulfur that belongs to you it might stick there. Since chlorella is just a good cysteine source, and all the other "sulfur foods" contribute molecules that have one sulfur in them in the active form, what happens is you make the mercury atoms play pinball among the proteins in your body. They bounce hither and yon - and mercury does its damage when it sticks to a new sulfur group that belongs to you, or comes off of one. Since the "sulfur foods" contribute molecules with one sulfur they don't hold onto the mercury any better than you do, and they greatly increase the amount of damage the mercury does without really removing much of it.
Lipoic acid (as dihydrolipoate which your body converts it into), DMSA and DMPS each have TWO thiols per molecule so they hold onto the mercury atoms tighter than your body does and have a chance to really escort the mercury out instead of just stirring it up. Thus these are CHELATING AGENTS - chemicals with 2 or more binding groups per molecule so they hold on to the metal atom tightly. Chlorella, cysteine, penicillamine, glutathione, "sulfur foods," etc. are not chelating agents in any legitimate chemical sense.>>
If you take something that has one sulfur in it, then that just goes and bumps the mercury off one of the sulfurs that belong to you. Next time that mercury runs into another sulfur that belongs to you it might stick there. Since chlorella is just a good cysteine source, and all the other "sulfur foods" contribute molecules that have one sulfur in them in the active form, what happens is you make the mercury atoms play pinball among the proteins in your body. They bounce hither and yon - and mercury does its damage when it sticks to a new sulfur group that belongs to you, or comes off of one. Since the "sulfur foods" contribute molecules with one sulfur they don't hold onto the mercury any better than you do, and they greatly increase the amount of damage the mercury does without really removing much of it.
Lipoic acid (as dihydrolipoate which your body converts it into), DMSA and DMPS each have TWO thiols per molecule so they hold onto the mercury atoms tighter than your body does and have a chance to really escort the mercury out instead of just stirring it up. Thus these are CHELATING AGENTS - chemicals with 2 or more binding groups per molecule so they hold on to the metal atom tightly. Chlorella, cysteine, penicillamine, glutathione, "sulfur foods," etc. are not chelating agents in any legitimate chemical sense.>>
I strongly recommend you read his book first and then decide what is most suitable for your son.
JMHoll99
QUOTE(JMHoll99 @ Oct 9 2005, 03:20 AM)
Hello John M,
I would like to confirm what Mr Pepper (messsage #3) says. I have just finished reading Andy Cutler’s book
”Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment – What you can do to get better. How your doctor can help”.
His explanations have convinced me that the combination of oral DMSA with ALA (alpha lipoic acid) are the correct chelators but that it is of MASSIVE importance to use the correct, regular dosage (every 3 - 4 hours). His book explains all this and is available at: www.noamalgam.com or from Amazon.
Important also is to avoid cilantro, chlorella, etc. because these things, with only one single thiol, are NOT chelators but only ‘stir’ up the mercury resulting in additional toxic effects. Here a quote from a message from Andy on this subject:
I strongly recommend you read his book first and then decide what is most suitable for your son.
JMHoll99
I would like to confirm what Mr Pepper (messsage #3) says. I have just finished reading Andy Cutler’s book
”Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment – What you can do to get better. How your doctor can help”.
His explanations have convinced me that the combination of oral DMSA with ALA (alpha lipoic acid) are the correct chelators but that it is of MASSIVE importance to use the correct, regular dosage (every 3 - 4 hours). His book explains all this and is available at: www.noamalgam.com or from Amazon.
Important also is to avoid cilantro, chlorella, etc. because these things, with only one single thiol, are NOT chelators but only ‘stir’ up the mercury resulting in additional toxic effects. Here a quote from a message from Andy on this subject:
I strongly recommend you read his book first and then decide what is most suitable for your son.
JMHoll99
Hello,
I would just like to clarify a bit about Hg chemistry. The problem with substances like cysteine and glutathione is that they do not leave the body, as has been mentioned, mostly becuase the complexes with Hg are uncharged and thus can not leave the body through the kidneys. The neutral complexes can be taken up by the liver and deposited in the small intestine and subsequently reabsorbed "down the line". The loop is why methylmercury in particular stays in the body. Just having a dithiol, with a stronger binding strength, however is not the requisite chemistry for detoxification. What is necessary for removal from the body is a complexing agent which retains a negative charge even when binding Hg. The charge allows the molecule to be removed by the kidneys into the urine. This is the case for dimercaptosuccinic acid, a dithiol, and also the case for N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC), a monothiolic compound that is especially effective for methylmercury, but I believe also good for Hg2+.
Regards,
Chris Shade
I would just like to clarify a bit about Hg chemistry. The problem with substances like cysteine and glutathione is that they do not leave the body, as has been mentioned, mostly becuase the complexes with Hg are uncharged and thus can not leave the body through the kidneys. The neutral complexes can be taken up by the liver and deposited in the small intestine and subsequently reabsorbed "down the line". The loop is why methylmercury in particular stays in the body. Just having a dithiol, with a stronger binding strength, however is not the requisite chemistry for detoxification. What is necessary for removal from the body is a complexing agent which retains a negative charge even when binding Hg. The charge allows the molecule to be removed by the kidneys into the urine. This is the case for dimercaptosuccinic acid, a dithiol, and also the case for N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC), a monothiolic compound that is especially effective for methylmercury, but I believe also good for Hg2+.
Regards,
Chris Shade
[Thanks, its great to have this input...even if i'm really struggling ot make sense of it! I have a some organic chemistry and biochemistry and pharmacokinetics as a herbalist, but this is a real minefield isn't it to understand, and so many theories and approaches. Bearing in mind andy cutler suggests crucial amounts of dmsa be given ?3-4 hourly, is there any basis for this?. I'm having DMSA twice alternate days, and NAC twice alt days, with selenium, b3, alphalipoic acid daily, betainetmg and 4g vit c orally daily, imb12 weekly, and have had iv vit c, glutathione, taurine etd. I'm now starting to feel very well.....also what are your thoughts about using garlic and sulphur containing foods whilst chelatiing. As a chemist that is. Your thoughts would be welcome on this
thanks,
Hilary
quote=chris.shade,Oct 10 2005, 12:00 AM]
Hello,
I would just like to clarify a bit about Hg chemistry. The problem with substances like cysteine and glutathione is that they do not leave the body, as has been mentioned, mostly becuase the complexes with Hg are uncharged and thus can not leave the body through the kidneys. The neutral complexes can be taken up by the liver and deposited in the small intestine and subsequently reabsorbed "down the line". The loop is why methylmercury in particular stays in the body. Just having a dithiol, with a stronger binding strength, however is not the requisite chemistry for detoxification. What is necessary for removal from the body is a complexing agent which retains a negative charge even when binding Hg. The charge allows the molecule to be removed by the kidneys into the urine. This is the case for dimercaptosuccinic acid, a dithiol, and also the case for N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC), a monothiolic compound that is especially effective for methylmercury, but I believe also good for Hg2+.
Regards,
Chris Shade
[/quote]
thanks,
Hilary
quote=chris.shade,Oct 10 2005, 12:00 AM]
Hello,
I would just like to clarify a bit about Hg chemistry. The problem with substances like cysteine and glutathione is that they do not leave the body, as has been mentioned, mostly becuase the complexes with Hg are uncharged and thus can not leave the body through the kidneys. The neutral complexes can be taken up by the liver and deposited in the small intestine and subsequently reabsorbed "down the line". The loop is why methylmercury in particular stays in the body. Just having a dithiol, with a stronger binding strength, however is not the requisite chemistry for detoxification. What is necessary for removal from the body is a complexing agent which retains a negative charge even when binding Hg. The charge allows the molecule to be removed by the kidneys into the urine. This is the case for dimercaptosuccinic acid, a dithiol, and also the case for N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC), a monothiolic compound that is especially effective for methylmercury, but I believe also good for Hg2+.
Regards,
Chris Shade
[/quote]
Hi Hillary,
The field is complex, but can be simplified, as far as I can see. Sulfhydryl groups (-SH) are the ones that do the binding of ionic Hg (Hg2+ and MeHg+). When ionic Hg bind to sulfhydryls they replace the H+ on the sulfhydryl. MeHg will bind with one sulfhydryl and Hg2+ will bind with two (either two suflhydryls on one molecule as with DMSA or with two separate molecules as with NAC). Molecules with sulfydryl groups need to have another charged group, preferably negatively-charged like a carboxylate (-COOH), for them to be removed via the kidneys. NAC and DMSA (dimercaptosucinic acid) have a carboxylate group on them that keeps the complex negative. DMPS (dimercapto propane sulfonate - a sulfonic acid) has a negative sulfonate group but those are oftern toxic groups compounds (as I think many have found), so I would stick with NAC and DMSA. The basis for Cutlers rec. may be that you pee out the DMPS like you do vit. c, so youhave to replenish it. I do not know this for sure.
Sulfur is quite often misrepresented and lumped together. The sulfur in garlic is mostly not sulfhydryl and therefore will not bind Hg on its own. In fact its antibiotic action is linked to its disruption of sulfhydryl groups in bacterial and fungal enzymes, so I really would avoid it while chelating. There may be other reasons to take it, but I do not know them, so keeping it simple seems the right way to go. Other sulfur-contianing foods, if they have sulfhydryl groups, may just compete with your chelators for the Hg and diminish their activity. Glutathione is in this group of potential competitors. I am NOT a doctor and have no experience guiding detox, but I am a Hg-specific chemist. I know glu is very good for your detoxifying mechanisms and/as an important antioxidant, but may be good to skip while chelating. I have heard that it is hard to absorb glutathione directly and that NAC boosts glu production in the body, so maybe the NAC is all you need, but that is just my educated guess. Selenium is a for sure to take, as I have seen alot of studies showing it protecting for Hg toxicity. All the other things you mention seem good wholistically for the detox.
Regards,
Chris
[quote=hilary,Oct 10 2005, 05:19 AM]
[Thanks, its great to have this input...even if i'm really struggling ot make sense of it! I have a some organic chemistry and biochemistry and pharmacokinetics as a herbalist, but this is a real minefield isn't it to understand, and so many theories and approaches. Bearing in mind andy cutler suggests crucial amounts of dmsa be given ?3-4 hourly, is there any basis for this?. I'm having DMSA twice alternate days, and NAC twice alt days, with selenium, b3, alphalipoic acid daily, betainetmg and 4g vit c orally daily, imb12 weekly, and have had iv vit c, glutathione, taurine etd. I'm now starting to feel very well.....also what are your thoughts about using garlic and sulphur containing foods whilst chelatiing. As a chemist that is. Your thoughts would be welcome on this
thanks,
Hilary
quote=chris.shade,Oct 10 2005, 12:00 AM]
Hello,
I would just like to clarify a bit about Hg chemistry. The problem with substances like cysteine and glutathione is that they do not leave the body, as has been mentioned, mostly becuase the complexes with Hg are uncharged and thus can not leave the body through the kidneys. The neutral complexes can be taken up by the liver and deposited in the small intestine and subsequently reabsorbed "down the line". The loop is why methylmercury in particular stays in the body. Just having a dithiol, with a stronger binding strength, however is not the requisite chemistry for detoxification. What is necessary for removal from the body is a complexing agent which retains a negative charge even when binding Hg. The charge allows the molecule to be removed by the kidneys into the urine. This is the case for dimercaptosuccinic acid, a dithiol, and also the case for N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC), a monothiolic compound that is especially effective for methylmercury, but I believe also good for Hg2+.
Regards,
Chris Shade
[/quote]
[/quote]
The field is complex, but can be simplified, as far as I can see. Sulfhydryl groups (-SH) are the ones that do the binding of ionic Hg (Hg2+ and MeHg+). When ionic Hg bind to sulfhydryls they replace the H+ on the sulfhydryl. MeHg will bind with one sulfhydryl and Hg2+ will bind with two (either two suflhydryls on one molecule as with DMSA or with two separate molecules as with NAC). Molecules with sulfydryl groups need to have another charged group, preferably negatively-charged like a carboxylate (-COOH), for them to be removed via the kidneys. NAC and DMSA (dimercaptosucinic acid) have a carboxylate group on them that keeps the complex negative. DMPS (dimercapto propane sulfonate - a sulfonic acid) has a negative sulfonate group but those are oftern toxic groups compounds (as I think many have found), so I would stick with NAC and DMSA. The basis for Cutlers rec. may be that you pee out the DMPS like you do vit. c, so youhave to replenish it. I do not know this for sure.
Sulfur is quite often misrepresented and lumped together. The sulfur in garlic is mostly not sulfhydryl and therefore will not bind Hg on its own. In fact its antibiotic action is linked to its disruption of sulfhydryl groups in bacterial and fungal enzymes, so I really would avoid it while chelating. There may be other reasons to take it, but I do not know them, so keeping it simple seems the right way to go. Other sulfur-contianing foods, if they have sulfhydryl groups, may just compete with your chelators for the Hg and diminish their activity. Glutathione is in this group of potential competitors. I am NOT a doctor and have no experience guiding detox, but I am a Hg-specific chemist. I know glu is very good for your detoxifying mechanisms and/as an important antioxidant, but may be good to skip while chelating. I have heard that it is hard to absorb glutathione directly and that NAC boosts glu production in the body, so maybe the NAC is all you need, but that is just my educated guess. Selenium is a for sure to take, as I have seen alot of studies showing it protecting for Hg toxicity. All the other things you mention seem good wholistically for the detox.
Regards,
Chris
[quote=hilary,Oct 10 2005, 05:19 AM]
[Thanks, its great to have this input...even if i'm really struggling ot make sense of it! I have a some organic chemistry and biochemistry and pharmacokinetics as a herbalist, but this is a real minefield isn't it to understand, and so many theories and approaches. Bearing in mind andy cutler suggests crucial amounts of dmsa be given ?3-4 hourly, is there any basis for this?. I'm having DMSA twice alternate days, and NAC twice alt days, with selenium, b3, alphalipoic acid daily, betainetmg and 4g vit c orally daily, imb12 weekly, and have had iv vit c, glutathione, taurine etd. I'm now starting to feel very well.....also what are your thoughts about using garlic and sulphur containing foods whilst chelatiing. As a chemist that is. Your thoughts would be welcome on this
thanks,
Hilary
quote=chris.shade,Oct 10 2005, 12:00 AM]
Hello,
I would just like to clarify a bit about Hg chemistry. The problem with substances like cysteine and glutathione is that they do not leave the body, as has been mentioned, mostly becuase the complexes with Hg are uncharged and thus can not leave the body through the kidneys. The neutral complexes can be taken up by the liver and deposited in the small intestine and subsequently reabsorbed "down the line". The loop is why methylmercury in particular stays in the body. Just having a dithiol, with a stronger binding strength, however is not the requisite chemistry for detoxification. What is necessary for removal from the body is a complexing agent which retains a negative charge even when binding Hg. The charge allows the molecule to be removed by the kidneys into the urine. This is the case for dimercaptosuccinic acid, a dithiol, and also the case for N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC), a monothiolic compound that is especially effective for methylmercury, but I believe also good for Hg2+.
Regards,
Chris Shade
[/quote]
[/quote]
Hillary,
Sorry, forgot to include the reduced form of alpha-lipoic acid, alpha dihydrolipoic acid (DHLA) as a good Hg binding molecule with a carboxylate. It looks like it could do a really good job, but I have not read studies of it. It looks to me like Dr. Cutler is really recommeding the right things.
Chris
[quote=chris.shade,Oct 10 2005, 03:57 PM]
Hi Hillary,
The field is complex, but can be simplified, as far as I can see. Sulfhydryl groups (-SH) are the ones that do the binding of ionic Hg (Hg2+ and MeHg+). When ionic Hg bind to sulfhydryls they replace the H+ on the sulfhydryl. MeHg will bind with one sulfhydryl and Hg2+ will bind with two (either two suflhydryls on one molecule as with DMSA or with two separate molecules as with NAC). Molecules with sulfydryl groups need to have another charged group, preferably negatively-charged like a carboxylate (-COOH), for them to be removed via the kidneys. NAC and DMSA (dimercaptosucinic acid) have a carboxylate group on them that keeps the complex negative. DMPS (dimercapto propane sulfonate - a sulfonic acid) has a negative sulfonate group but those are oftern toxic groups compounds (as I think many have found), so I would stick with NAC and DMSA. The basis for Cutlers rec. may be that you pee out the DMPS like you do vit. c, so youhave to replenish it. I do not know this for sure.
Sulfur is quite often misrepresented and lumped together. The sulfur in garlic is mostly not sulfhydryl and therefore will not bind Hg on its own. In fact its antibiotic action is linked to its disruption of sulfhydryl groups in bacterial and fungal enzymes, so I really would avoid it while chelating. There may be other reasons to take it, but I do not know them, so keeping it simple seems the right way to go. Other sulfur-contianing foods, if they have sulfhydryl groups, may just compete with your chelators for the Hg and diminish their activity. Glutathione is in this group of potential competitors. I am NOT a doctor and have no experience guiding detox, but I am a Hg-specific chemist. I know glu is very good for your detoxifying mechanisms and/as an important antioxidant, but may be good to skip while chelating. I have heard that it is hard to absorb glutathione directly and that NAC boosts glu production in the body, so maybe the NAC is all you need, but that is just my educated guess. Selenium is a for sure to take, as I have seen alot of studies showing it protecting for Hg toxicity. All the other things you mention seem good wholistically for the detox.
Regards,
Chris
[/quote]
[/quote]
Sorry, forgot to include the reduced form of alpha-lipoic acid, alpha dihydrolipoic acid (DHLA) as a good Hg binding molecule with a carboxylate. It looks like it could do a really good job, but I have not read studies of it. It looks to me like Dr. Cutler is really recommeding the right things.
Chris
[quote=chris.shade,Oct 10 2005, 03:57 PM]
Hi Hillary,
The field is complex, but can be simplified, as far as I can see. Sulfhydryl groups (-SH) are the ones that do the binding of ionic Hg (Hg2+ and MeHg+). When ionic Hg bind to sulfhydryls they replace the H+ on the sulfhydryl. MeHg will bind with one sulfhydryl and Hg2+ will bind with two (either two suflhydryls on one molecule as with DMSA or with two separate molecules as with NAC). Molecules with sulfydryl groups need to have another charged group, preferably negatively-charged like a carboxylate (-COOH), for them to be removed via the kidneys. NAC and DMSA (dimercaptosucinic acid) have a carboxylate group on them that keeps the complex negative. DMPS (dimercapto propane sulfonate - a sulfonic acid) has a negative sulfonate group but those are oftern toxic groups compounds (as I think many have found), so I would stick with NAC and DMSA. The basis for Cutlers rec. may be that you pee out the DMPS like you do vit. c, so youhave to replenish it. I do not know this for sure.
Sulfur is quite often misrepresented and lumped together. The sulfur in garlic is mostly not sulfhydryl and therefore will not bind Hg on its own. In fact its antibiotic action is linked to its disruption of sulfhydryl groups in bacterial and fungal enzymes, so I really would avoid it while chelating. There may be other reasons to take it, but I do not know them, so keeping it simple seems the right way to go. Other sulfur-contianing foods, if they have sulfhydryl groups, may just compete with your chelators for the Hg and diminish their activity. Glutathione is in this group of potential competitors. I am NOT a doctor and have no experience guiding detox, but I am a Hg-specific chemist. I know glu is very good for your detoxifying mechanisms and/as an important antioxidant, but may be good to skip while chelating. I have heard that it is hard to absorb glutathione directly and that NAC boosts glu production in the body, so maybe the NAC is all you need, but that is just my educated guess. Selenium is a for sure to take, as I have seen alot of studies showing it protecting for Hg toxicity. All the other things you mention seem good wholistically for the detox.
Regards,
Chris
[/quote]
[/quote]
thanks Chris
could you bear to answer one more question which it is difficult to get answers to. Its so useful to have a mercury specific chemist contributing here and i appreciate you can't give medical advice. Does DMSA (and also NAC) chelate across the blood brain barrier or not.
thanks, hilary
[quote=chris.shade,Oct 10 2005, 09:57 PM]
Hi Hillary,
The field is complex, but can be simplified, as far as I can see. Sulfhydryl groups (-SH) are the ones that do the binding of ionic Hg (Hg2+ and MeHg+). When ionic Hg bind to sulfhydryls they replace the H+ on the sulfhydryl. MeHg will bind with one sulfhydryl and Hg2+ will bind with two (either two suflhydryls on one molecule as with DMSA or with two separate molecules as with NAC). Molecules with sulfydryl groups need to have another charged group, preferably negatively-charged like a carboxylate (-COOH), for them to be removed via the kidneys. NAC and DMSA (dimercaptosucinic acid) have a carboxylate group on them that keeps the complex negative. DMPS (dimercapto propane sulfonate - a sulfonic acid) has a negative sulfonate group but those are oftern toxic groups compounds (as I think many have found), so I would stick with NAC and DMSA. The basis for Cutlers rec. may be that you pee out the DMPS like you do vit. c, so youhave to replenish it. I do not know this for sure.
Sulfur is quite often misrepresented and lumped together. The sulfur in garlic is mostly not sulfhydryl and therefore will not bind Hg on its own. In fact its antibiotic action is linked to its disruption of sulfhydryl groups in bacterial and fungal enzymes, so I really would avoid it while chelating. There may be other reasons to take it, but I do not know them, so keeping it simple seems the right way to go. Other sulfur-contianing foods, if they have sulfhydryl groups, may just compete with your chelators for the Hg and diminish their activity. Glutathione is in this group of potential competitors. I am NOT a doctor and have no experience guiding detox, but I am a Hg-specific chemist. I know glu is very good for your detoxifying mechanisms and/as an important antioxidant, but may be good to skip while chelating. I have heard that it is hard to absorb glutathione directly and that NAC boosts glu production in the body, so maybe the NAC is all you need, but that is just my educated guess. Selenium is a for sure to take, as I have seen alot of studies showing it protecting for Hg toxicity. All the other things you mention seem good wholistically for the detox.
Regards,
Chris
[/quote]
[/quote]
could you bear to answer one more question which it is difficult to get answers to. Its so useful to have a mercury specific chemist contributing here and i appreciate you can't give medical advice. Does DMSA (and also NAC) chelate across the blood brain barrier or not.
thanks, hilary
[quote=chris.shade,Oct 10 2005, 09:57 PM]
Hi Hillary,
The field is complex, but can be simplified, as far as I can see. Sulfhydryl groups (-SH) are the ones that do the binding of ionic Hg (Hg2+ and MeHg+). When ionic Hg bind to sulfhydryls they replace the H+ on the sulfhydryl. MeHg will bind with one sulfhydryl and Hg2+ will bind with two (either two suflhydryls on one molecule as with DMSA or with two separate molecules as with NAC). Molecules with sulfydryl groups need to have another charged group, preferably negatively-charged like a carboxylate (-COOH), for them to be removed via the kidneys. NAC and DMSA (dimercaptosucinic acid) have a carboxylate group on them that keeps the complex negative. DMPS (dimercapto propane sulfonate - a sulfonic acid) has a negative sulfonate group but those are oftern toxic groups compounds (as I think many have found), so I would stick with NAC and DMSA. The basis for Cutlers rec. may be that you pee out the DMPS like you do vit. c, so youhave to replenish it. I do not know this for sure.
Sulfur is quite often misrepresented and lumped together. The sulfur in garlic is mostly not sulfhydryl and therefore will not bind Hg on its own. In fact its antibiotic action is linked to its disruption of sulfhydryl groups in bacterial and fungal enzymes, so I really would avoid it while chelating. There may be other reasons to take it, but I do not know them, so keeping it simple seems the right way to go. Other sulfur-contianing foods, if they have sulfhydryl groups, may just compete with your chelators for the Hg and diminish their activity. Glutathione is in this group of potential competitors. I am NOT a doctor and have no experience guiding detox, but I am a Hg-specific chemist. I know glu is very good for your detoxifying mechanisms and/as an important antioxidant, but may be good to skip while chelating. I have heard that it is hard to absorb glutathione directly and that NAC boosts glu production in the body, so maybe the NAC is all you need, but that is just my educated guess. Selenium is a for sure to take, as I have seen alot of studies showing it protecting for Hg toxicity. All the other things you mention seem good wholistically for the detox.
Regards,
Chris
[/quote]
[/quote]
Hillary,
Great question. Sorry fro the wait on the reply, I was away. I do not specifically know the answer, but will give you my take on it:
Methyl-Hg moves across the blood-brain barrier via the Large Neutral Amino Acid Transporter as a neutral comples of MeHg and cysteine. It can move both in and out this way (as far as I know). The real problem is that when inside the brain some of the MeHg gets demethylated to the Hg2+ form, which then does the harm due to its higher reactivity than MeHg and its limited mobility.
When you take DMSA or NAC it will take MeHg away from the cysteine and flush it out the kidneys. As the level of MeHg-Cysteine in your blood goes down, it will draw it out of your brain as well and flush that out.
When you add something like Hg to a system the system will attain a distribution of Hg throughout the system; in the blood, the Hg will distribut among complexing agents according to their relative strengths, and then the complexes can distribute further into organs according to the nature of the complex (such as moving through the blood-brain barrier. When you pull on one part of the distribution you affect all of it. Thus you can pull MeHg out of the brain by flushing MeHg in the blood out the kidneys (to reiterate, you do this by adding strong chelators that make charged water-soluble complexes instead of the neutral more fat-soluble ones that normally dominate the blood chemistry). The problem is whether you have any effect on the Hg2+ that is inside the brain. The Hg2+ is much less mobile and typically does its harm by replacing metal-centers of enzymes. Once in the metal-center it is likely hard to pull out. However, it may be that it is just a much longer process to remove Hg2+ than it is to remove MeHg.
Regards,
Chris
[quote=hilary,Oct 11 2005, 10:48 AM]
thanks Chris
could you bear to answer one more question which it is difficult to get answers to. Its so useful to have a mercury specific chemist contributing here and i appreciate you can't give medical advice. Does DMSA (and also NAC) chelate across the blood brain barrier or not.
thanks, hilary
[/quote]
[/quote]
Great question. Sorry fro the wait on the reply, I was away. I do not specifically know the answer, but will give you my take on it:
Methyl-Hg moves across the blood-brain barrier via the Large Neutral Amino Acid Transporter as a neutral comples of MeHg and cysteine. It can move both in and out this way (as far as I know). The real problem is that when inside the brain some of the MeHg gets demethylated to the Hg2+ form, which then does the harm due to its higher reactivity than MeHg and its limited mobility.
When you take DMSA or NAC it will take MeHg away from the cysteine and flush it out the kidneys. As the level of MeHg-Cysteine in your blood goes down, it will draw it out of your brain as well and flush that out.
When you add something like Hg to a system the system will attain a distribution of Hg throughout the system; in the blood, the Hg will distribut among complexing agents according to their relative strengths, and then the complexes can distribute further into organs according to the nature of the complex (such as moving through the blood-brain barrier. When you pull on one part of the distribution you affect all of it. Thus you can pull MeHg out of the brain by flushing MeHg in the blood out the kidneys (to reiterate, you do this by adding strong chelators that make charged water-soluble complexes instead of the neutral more fat-soluble ones that normally dominate the blood chemistry). The problem is whether you have any effect on the Hg2+ that is inside the brain. The Hg2+ is much less mobile and typically does its harm by replacing metal-centers of enzymes. Once in the metal-center it is likely hard to pull out. However, it may be that it is just a much longer process to remove Hg2+ than it is to remove MeHg.
Regards,
Chris
[quote=hilary,Oct 11 2005, 10:48 AM]
thanks Chris
could you bear to answer one more question which it is difficult to get answers to. Its so useful to have a mercury specific chemist contributing here and i appreciate you can't give medical advice. Does DMSA (and also NAC) chelate across the blood brain barrier or not.
thanks, hilary
[/quote]
[/quote]
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